Blender Underground

Apollos, I think that I got most of the time IPO tutorial. Are you limited to changing the time for the whole animation, or can you have a seperate time IPO for different objects within the same scene?

eg. I made my vine grow, cool, Now I'd like to duplicate it but have the dup grow a little more slowly -> could that be done with a time IPO for just that seperate group of objects/ curves that make up vine #2??

Yep just by using different Ipos with shifted Timelines for each... vine... or any object

http://www.filedropper.com/shiftedipos

OOOOO WAIT

"I" found a better way

look at "BU File RoundUp"

http://blenderunderground.com/2008/04/2 ... omment-694

The post named "Cube Animation" give you an easyer way to shift ipo. It will allow you to share the exact same Ipo between differents object who have to be "Time shifted".

Goliath, you have been a huge help, thank you thank you.

Time IPO: for anyone playing with this, open Goliath's posted blend file and take a look at the ipo's and watch it animate, it is quite illustrative. Then fiddle with it.

Here is my understanding -> each object can have a time IPO that is independent of what any other object does. In a simplified explanation the time IPO acts like it is itterative, meaning it is essentially applied last, after everything else is calculated based on what the position/ size/ rotation/ material/ scale/ whatever (lets call it configuration) would be for that object at the frame in question. So if the time IPO is at 1 (1 on the Y axis) for the first 20 frames (which is 1-20 on the x axis), then the object will hold the position it would have been in without the time IPO applied at frame#1 and stay at that configuration for the first 20 frames. If the time IPO changes, the configuration of the object at frame X (axis) is made to be what the configuration for that object would be at frame number Y (axis) if there had been no Time shifting applied at all. So the time IPO really isn't a curve, it is a set of steps (a histogram) where at each successive frame (X axis number) the computer displays the object as it would normally have been displayed at frame #Y (axis number) Since there are no fractional frames, eg no such thing as frame 25.4, every X and Y value is an integer (no fractions just whole numbers). So to the computer, there is no motion or direction, only snapshots of where objects would be at any given frame.

Example:: if the time IPO skips from (Y=) 7 right up to 110 between frames (X=) 25 to 26 then at frame 25 the object is displayed as it normally would have been at frame number 7 and in frame 26 the object is displayed as it would normally be displayed at frame 110, completely skipping all the frames in between. If you want to make things look like they are running backwards then slope the line down. So continuing the eg. if the time IPO goes from (Y=) 110 to 109, to 108 at frames (X=) 27, 28, 29 then at frame 25 the object is displayed as it would normally be at frame #7, at frame #26 and 27 the object is displayed as it normally would be at frame 110, at frame #28 it is displayed as it normally would be at frame# 109, and at frame # 29, the object is displayed as it normally would be at frame #108.

Please let me know if anyone has any questions. I have not yet tested to see if this can be used with the physics sims, like fluid or softbody.

You're welcome... I didn't thought to be that useful...

Anyone get the time offset to work? All it did was put 2 green bars on my ipo window but when I animate or render the 2 objects set to different times there is no time offset visible??

Here for you.... I dont have any idea about why you cannot see the offsets if you succefully added this green time offset line.... I'm totally puzzled...

Anyway... here is a file including the related fonction....

http://files.filefront.com/Time+Offsetb ... einfo.html

Press ALT+A and you should be able the see an offset.

Walsh it's working for me in 2.48. Keep in mind the offset value is in frames and not seconds, so you might want to try higher settings.

Would someone please look at my blend file and tell me what I'm doing wrong? I have timeoffset set for one set of vines and not the other. Both use the same set of hooks, maybe that's the problem. My head hurts from all the banging, oi...
http://hosted.filefront.com/sSsBisonBoy/

Nice blend walsh, very well put together.

Here's the problem(s). You're being too efficient.

You're using a single set of curve data for each vine, and a single taper object and hook. You'll need a separate curve AND curve data (when you copied the curves, you probably used ALT+D instead of SHIFT+D, which duplicates the object, but keeps the same object data).

Since the taper curve's hook is what's being animated, it's also the object that needs to be time offset. You'll need 2 curves (one for each vine) each with it's OWN taper object, each with its own hook.

The good news is that each taper curve's hook can use the same Ipo block for animation, so you'll only have to animate a single time; however each taper object and hook will need to occupy the same space, which means they should be on separate layers.

Let me know if there's anything you don't understand.

Thanks for the fast help! Funny how I first did shift-D and thought that I could simplify using alt-D

Please explain how I can set 2 hooks to use the same IPO curve though, I don;t know how to do that yet. AND THEN it will finally make sense to use the Time IPO for each vine seperately I think Learning path seems to be a circle , hmm maybe a spiral

It might be easier to start off giving each its own Ipo (you can copy the curves once you animate one). But if you want to share an Ipo, just create your first animation, then name the Ipo block something meaningful. You can find the Ipo block name on the header at the bottom of the Ipo window. Then select your second hook, and choose the same Ipo block for that hook from the selector (same place where you named it).

It was good planning to use ALT+D, but it's not always practical, like in your case. Since the curve data stores the taper object, and you were sharing the data, you could only have one taper object.

Need more help

I can't seem to duplicate the TaperObj curves in any fashion (shiftD or AltD) without the empties and hooks of the duplicate jumping right back to the loc/rot/scale of the old ones as soon as I move the animation. My guess is that because the IPO curve for them is duplicated as well it adjusts their position right back to the old one as soon as animation restarts.

I'm at a loss for how to proceed. As I see it, I could 1) just leave all the taperObj curves superimposed ontop of each other. That's just fine if you never want to edit them, but is a mess and unsatisfactory as anything but a hack workaround. 2) move the curves and then redo all the IPOs - what a bother, may as well make them all from scratch, it'd be neater at the least. 3) Convert all the IPO's from hard coordinates to deltas. hmm I have no idea how to do this nor even if it would work.

Could I have avoided this entire big mess if I had started off with deltas instead of fixed coordinates for the IPOs? I still don't see how to enter delta coordinates except by hand cuz when you hit 'I' in the 3d window, there is no option for deltas, how is one supposed to do this???? I can't get anysort of duplication or copy/paste to work eather, hmmmm.

I would like to figure out how to do this right because I intend to animate atleast 100 of the leaf/stem pairs and I'd like to be able to stick in some variability. in their growth.

edit: note for fellow noobs: you can copy an IPO curve to and from a buffer and then select whatever channel you want to paste it in using the orange bars with the arrows up and down on them. I had to search to find them as the header was to the R of the small window I had the curve editor in so you can drag it into view using the middle mouse button to grab it. Now I gues I just need to figure out how to do this from the 3D window directly,,,,

This is exactly right. If you delete (or 'mute') the Ipo block, you'll be able to reposition the duplicated taper curve and hook, but you'll still need to re-animate it or place it on another layer.



This is why I suggested you'd want the second one on a separate layer. It could occupy the same space without being too messy.



You can create curves for the deltas by selecting the delta item in the Ipo window, then CTRL+Click in the window to add some points. You can use the properties window for keyframes (N key) to enter manual values for keys. This is a good solution to the 'same space' issue.



Perhaps. Like with many things, you have choices as to how to make it work.

Hope this helps...

delta coordinate are logical but the details can really mess up your IPO quickly if you don't think about it. Lessons learned:
1) Bottom line, every single time you convert an IPO curve to a delta IPO, even if it is flat, run the animation again to see if something has changed, every single time.
2) the transform properties box is your friend. For example it will show you that Blender can't make a horizontal line! stick in an IPO of a single point and ymax and Y min will never both =0.000!
3) You can't copy a curve to the buffer (aka clipboard) delete the curve and then add it back as a delta. the curve is erased from the buffer when you erase it from the IPO - BOOO HISS.
4) because of #3, your delta location is added to your global location coordinates as soon as you paste the global coordinates IPO into your delta coord IPO. Bummer cuz this now offsets the starting point for your delta and everything can be wayyyyyyy out of whack! To get around this you just grab the delta IPO curve and drag it up or down until things are back where they are supposed to be. The up and down arrow keys allow really precise control! Now follow lesson #1!!
5) Don't animate anything you don't need to animate! Don't make yourself more work. This means stop using Loc/Rot/scale unless you need to animate all 3 things.
6) to summerize, the process is a) start in frame#1 and select the IPO for a single global coordinate, eg. LocX b) hit A if all points aren't already selected c) click on the down arrow over the orange bar in the IPO window to copy the current curve d) click on the delta coordinate you want to change to eg. dLocX e) click the up arrow over the orange bar and the curve should now show up in both global and delta coordinates f) select the global cordinates and hit X to delete it. g) click back on the delta coordinate h) run the animation i) grab the curve and move it only up and down as needed to reallign the animated objects to the proper position.