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 Post subject: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Hey all,
Been a while but I've been busy undertaking a rather large project. Remember my trouble scene? (http://www.blenderunderground.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3628) I'm working on an animated short movie of it! You'll have to excuse the "grainyness" of these as I only let them cook for about an hour in LuxRender.

Check out the still's:

Long Hallway Shot 1
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"Ops" Door Shot
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Hallway Far Wall Shot 1
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Broken Ceiling Shot
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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:45 pm 
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wow dude, that looks good.

Those pipes though might need a bit of work on the end of them, unless you are still detailing those. They just don't look quite right.



But here's a thought if you get time. Look at LuxRender using GPU, from what I can understand it has the potential to turn render times from hours to minutes or less....

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Hey Daworm!

Yea, the ability for that is the option to select how many "cores" you use. I have a Corei7 (4 cores with hyper-threading so technically 8 cores). The problem is that it cooks my CPU! The spikes get up to about 80C which doesn't sit comfortably with me for longer than a couple hours. I'm looking into setting up another box because LuxRender natively does network rendering and the set-up for it is as easy as install the client on another PC and point your "master" at the IP's of the other system(s).

As for the Pipes, yea they do need some work. It looked right in local view but they do need some touch-up looking at them in the full scene. Anything specific? I'm always open to suggestions :)

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:41 am 
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Dude, just awesome! Great modelling and materials, love your style. How long have you been working on this exactly? I'm still having trouble staying at one project more than 2 weeks when doing blender twice a week.
If not for the grains, this is pretty close to photorealism. I don't want to imagine your rendertimes for a movie short... :D

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:29 am 
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I will be waiting for this one. Looks like it's going to take awhile though.

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:27 am 
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I don't know about all the rendering issue with LuxRender but I do have an idea what Daworm may be talking about with the pipes.

I'm assuming that one of the Xenomorphs must have pushed it's way through that hole in the ceiling or something very heavy must have fallen through that patch. I'm inclined to believe the former as this is a Weyland-Yutani colonial pre-fab construction at work here. Yes it's true I am an ALIENS fan of super geek proportions.

So if the Xenomorph pushed it way through the those pipes, maybe trying to get at a colonist under them. They would either be rolled back more and almost none of them would all be rolled in the same angles Next, those pipes wouldn't look as if some machine had bent them that way. some would be flattened out at their stress points where it's bent.

Next the ends, the ends are too cleanly broken. Yes I see that the ends are all jagged and sharp. but they are perfectly rounded. "If" some thing that strong ripped those those pipes like a beer can, those pipe ends would be flanged and torn through, some area's flanged out and stretched whole other pulled inwards towards the inside of the pipes. the most stretched areas and the most flanged out area would be the opposing side of the direction the pipe had been moving to get that way in the first place as that would be the direction that game the most resistance to the force moving it in many cases.

Lastly, We all know that the Xenomorph has a highly corrosive form of acid for blood. this is what makes them so darn deadly to kill. you may not get caught in the splash of blood after killing one of these things but if you happen to also be in space on a ship and kill one on board your ship. that much acid would eat it's way right through your hull and then your screwed as the vacuum of space would suck almost everything out into the void. Can anyone say Explosive Decompression with a chance of instantly freezing the Giblets of body part that was once you? yeah gross huh. It's one of the factors that make Space travel so dang risky as just about anything can still punch a hole in the space shuttle and kill a whole crew in a matter of seconds. thank god that hasn't happened. yet...

I bring up this fact for a reason. If a Xenomorph was to tare that patch of pipe open, it would likely also have to slice itself open doing so. IE it will bleed all over those pipes and anything else it in that tight area. how much entirely depends on how badly and how much fury it laid into those pipes to get through. We know that the Xenomorph is a primal yet intelligent creature, it may have even cut itself intentionally to make getting through those pipes all the more easier. thus we can assume that many of those pipe ends as well as the pipes them selves are melted like a McDonald's drinking straw in a cigarette lighter's flame. this would not just effect the ends of the pipes but rather maybe even the whole section of pipe itself and deform it is a rather wildly random looking shape maybe even fusing a few chunks together some how.

As the PH value of the acid is burned off, it will start eating less and less until eventually the PH is totally naturalized.

In the film Alien (Ridley Scott, 1979) there was a scene where they tried cutting the Facehugger (Not my term, please don't give me crap for it) off of it's first victim, A crew member of the Nostromo named Kane (Played by John hurt) and is so attempting to cut the fingers of the Xenomorph Facehugger to get it off of Kane's face. a little bit of blood squirt off and spills onto the operating table, through the operating table, through the floor, out the ceiling below that through the next floor down for I don't remember how many decks, a few for sure I remember, Maybe three or four visually, and maybe five or six in subsequent conversation afterward. the fact is it ate through a lot of we can only assume specially tempered steel and god knows what else between before finally unbalancing the PH and coming to a stop several floors below the medical bay.

How much blood was that? From as far as I can tell, about a 1/2 to 3/4 teaspoons worth of gritty yellow acid blood. Yeah imagine what a whole fully grown Xenomorph worth of that stuff can do if it bleeds out unchecked. they would have been screwed over most ricky tick.

Let me ask you something, Is this a scene from LV-426 (the planet's astrological name from James Cameron's Aliens in 1986) and if it is, At what point does this scene take place? I'm assuming it's after Newt's family, follows Carter Burke's instructions about how to get to the Derelict, comes back to the colony with a facehugger in tow. but I do not see any signs of the Colonial Marines having even landed. So I'm going to have to assume that this scene takes place between Initial discovery (or rather rediscovery) to the point in which the marines orbital to surface with Ellen Ripley and Carter Burke along for the ride.

If you ask me taking them all down at once and having a single squad was universally, and tactically stupid. surely the Sulaco is capable of taking upwards to 4-8 units at a time. the average Unit being anywhere from 12-16 people...
  • NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer)
  • Drop ship Pilot
  • Co-Pilot
  • Medic
  • 2x smart gun Operators (Squad Assist Support Machine Gunners)
  • 6-8x Riflemen (One of which being a Security Subversion Tech)
  • Droid
  • Technical Adviser, some sort of liaison or the like if needed more is needed.

but that's just fluff talk right now...

Next, It seems the scene is far too clean. I mean that literally by the way.

If this is the time between Discovery and Colonial Marine touch down, then the scene could be a bit cleaner or cluttered depending on the situation. Like if this is Initial Civilian Defense Attempt it a little bit cluttered, Like it's being lived in. After all these are civilians with their families, living in a tight space trying to work and live in the same place. Things are going to be places a bit haphazardly here and there as they go about their daily lives in the Colony.

If this is moving on towards the Civilian Defense right up to the Last Civilian Stand the whole scene would become way more trashed. things are going to be flung around the hallways and rooms as the Colonist try and defend them selves in the battle(s) that ensued. Some wall panels are hanging open or even tore completely off and on the other side of the hallways. some tore off and welded into containment walls which we all know eventually failed.

Paper work, books, manuals and files where flung every where. I remember in one scene, Kinda hard to see, there was a small area where it looks as if some of the survivors of the initial attack had just gathered up a pile of papers and looks as if they had burned them making a small camp fire for warmth.

Some of the wall panels have the wiring torn out or spliced in machinery/generators. Overhead ventilation was torn down, there where signs of small arms (Hand guns and smaller caliber Rifles) fire, Servery Charges blast marks, and other improvised weapons all over the place as they desperately, and eventually hopelessly tried to defend them selves. it's almost like a hurricane of Activity and Violence blew through the place in stages.

Floors and walls showed signs of having been splashed but misting of the acid blood, some areas there are holes where they may have actually hit one but didn't kill it. One place for sure they killed one and it melted a hole in the side wall and the floor a good ways downward. Some of the rails and walls are dented severely as if something rammed it rather hard or one of the survey charges went off right at that spot pushing all the surrounding metal all over the place if not totally blowing it apart.

All and all this was a scene of a horrible and ultimately hopeless battle. It's not going to be clean like that. in fact it's going to be really rather chaotically dirty and cluttered. even if this is before initial attack, when there where only a few Xenomorph's and almost an entire Colony of Human there, the lived in clutter is a factor as well. It still wouldn't be so clean or free of clutter.

There are scenes in Special Edition of the 1986 Aliens where we see the colony in normal operation. there are boxes and Drums in the hallways as a little kid is riding his big wheel toy in the Halls. There are people working on some of the walls panels, there are some spark of them welding something into the walls I believe. Also it was a little bit grungy. Kinda smoky, I have assume from both the Welding and the smokers puffing on cigarettes or pipes. the lighting was more solid, and operational but ti still was a bit dim in the halls. Some of the wall panels where in fact opened, not many but a few. there where wires being spliced into and re directed here and there and a few hose like wires draped down from walls and ceiling. And all this was before they found the Xenomorph's if you'll remember.

Basically, it was a mess but more of a living in mess with all the hassles of living in Tight spaces with hundreds of other families and co-workers.

When I say your scene is far too clean, I really means it far too uncluttered and well, sterilized clean looking. I do understand that this is a 3D model and that it took a lot of work to get it to this state and I applaud the work you put into this making it looks as good as it does. Also I understand that the more Detail you put into this the longer it take to render it looking as good as it does already. But there just not enough clutter to feel really lived in or more visually potent, fought for their lives in. And thus it feels fake somehow.

I ask you to at least take this into account and try and bring a little more life into the scenes. You don;t have to pack the scene with a whole lot of clutter. even just a little can make a world of difference.

All and all it a pretty accurate looking scene pre destruction and even before being lived in. Keep up the awesome work.

One Last thing, Have you been Working on a Xenomorph mesh? I remember there was the tail section of one in the scene you made before. But I hope that you are building a fully modeled version with the same attention to details you've show thus far with the scene. ti would be awesome to see one maybe even for a few seconds in your animation...

AWESOME STUFF...

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:10 pm 
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NINJA WALL OF TEXT!

Ow! My face!

Anyways, nice work! I don't think I need to critique anything; Ninja covered it all excellently. (By the square inch! :D )

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Hey all,
Thanks for the great responses so far!

@Prometheus
Hey! Thanks for the compliment! I've been working on this one for about 3 weeks; most of the other time has been taken up by me practicing the model of the adult Xenomorph and dealing with a teething 5-month old ;-) My motivation is all of the novels, (collectors eddition) movies I have because (despite my wife's wishes) I am a huge Aliens fan. Almost as big as Ninja ;-) I (accidentally) let a render go for about a day while I was out of town on business and it was absolutely stunning to look at!

@XChosen
Thanks! I hope you all do wait for it! I'm begging a friend of mine who works at the UNLV computer lab to see if I can get some exta CPU time off him. Failing that, its going to be about 5 frames a day unless I get the NVIDIA CUDA cluster I've been eye-balling. I'll be sure to keep you all posted.

@Ninja Krow
Oh boy, I had to re-read this one a couple of times due to the great input! As I said before I am a huge Aliens fan. I do realize it's too "clean" currently (lack of clutter) but this is because I haven't finished the hallways and other details yet. I'm saving the "clutter" and objects for the last before I start test-animating the Xeno's... oh yes you read that right: There will be Xeno's :D This scene takes place as you are one of the few (if, not the only) survivors of the calamity before the U.S.C.M. touch-down. Panic, horrible sounds, and lots of stuff happening all at once drives the protagonist! The "flight" side of fight-or-flight has definitely kicked-in. The protagonist is attempting to make his/her way to an off-site escape craft, one of the last saving-graces Hadley's Hope has to offer to those unfortunate enough to need its use. Along with dodging barricates that were put up in lieu of the normal day's hum-drum corridors and halls, he/she is most definitely being pursued by something but can't quite tell by what, or where from exactly. A flash of movement, and strange noises follow him/her in the beginning but seem to be closing-in from all sides. His/her only option- keep moving, for the love of God, keep moving!

I've also been working on a back-story for this before I launch it "officially." I'll try and post a link to it here when I've finished with it. The tough part is trying to not give away too many details ;-)

I've been giving some thought to what you've said about those pent-down pipes and I will be revising them after I get home from work tonight. I'll be re-vamping them a little as I just did some serious thought as to how those metal pipes would bend had a Xenomorph come crashing through it, or, even bent some pipes to get at the juicy, yummy, colonists below ;-)

I've bought the newest AvP game (and along with the collectors-editions from Rebellion back in the early 2000's) I'm using these as inspiration and some ideas. Plus some of the books, movies and novels. The nice part about designing something like this is I have enough reference material to work with that I am able to expand on some of it and get really super-creative while still keeping within the Aliens "feel" of it. I do look forward to displaying my final product here and will be probing for other input as time goes on. Currently, without textures aside from the default one, the size of my blender file is 10MB and growing due to the lengthy amounts of general scene halls, corridors, etc. I am adding.

@PNG_pyro
Hey Pyro,
Yea, I think Ninja covered it pretty well, lol. Again I do appreciate the (constructive) criticism from everyone in the B.U. community!

And above all,
->->->Thank you all very much!<-<-<-

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:56 pm 
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Holy Moly at wall of text.

Ninja - make that into a tutorial!



But prob not as "sharp" as that is more the look you'd get with wood if you snapped it. Metal is more smooth on the ends. Probably just shorten the ends a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:23 pm 
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I figure the ends of those pipes should be flattened, actually. That is what pipe looks like if it bends.

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Great work so far, I can't add anything that hasn't been already posted apart from perhaps suggesting that you find some pics of busted pipes to get the idea of what they look like.
Keep up the excellent work there !


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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:27 pm 
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HAHAHA! What Can I Say... I Am Geek...

@TC200k
Awesome, I kinda figured that after i posted a few minute that the clutter issue was more
then likely already on your mind.

Also AWESOME! you said "XENOs" as in multiples of Xenomorph. Which means awesome.

You know I've always wanted to write a story or make a short movie about some of what
happens between the Discovery and the Marines Arrival, It would make for a harrowing
story full of drama and action for sure, and it seem you had the same idea.

I'd like to offer my services as voice talent for this project if you'll have me. I only have one
voice but I've always wanted to do something ALIEN(S) related and this may very well be
the only chance I get, so what the hell, I'll ask and see if you'll go for it.

If you need a voice sample to help make a decision on my offer, I'd be more then happy to
read any line you want me to say, and however you want me to say it. Just in case. PM me
and let me know what you think or want me to read for you.

@Daworm
Hahaha, I've made only a few tutorials, and while I know the Concepts I don't feel
knowledgeable enough to even feel worthy of writing a tutorial about what I've talked
about above.

I have done some work like this before and know that there is a lattice and a few curves
involved. Other then that it really strait forward.

@PNG_Pyro
Sorry about messing up your face. I tend to get a little extra chatty on subjects i feel geeky
about, and Alien(s) is one of those subject. Expect more walls of text to slam you in the nose
from here on out.

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:24 pm 
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Hahah! I'd be the last person to criticize you for geekiness! Don't worry about my face. I like to read your posts, and you have excellent input.

I just like to tease you because I know you can take it and smile.

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:12 pm 
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Awesome responses all!

@Ninja
I'd love it if you could do some lines! Also if you know anyone who's interested in doing some texture/object work I would appreciate the help too. All are welcome to help and need only PM me to put in an idea or two if you like. I'm sure this thing is going to grow quickly (as it already is) but it's nothing I can't handle as it is a labor of love to be honest. I've taken a look at it several times and am impressed with my own work (which I must admit: I am my own worst critic sometimes) and this is a huge boost!

I'm going to add more "kinks" to the bars and some fragments on the ground (along with acid burns) on the deck plates below. Over all I'd like for this movie to convey the panic and fear you would expect to experience if you were (knowingly or unknowingly) possibly the last survivor before help arrives. I'm working on a section now that will make the protagonist have to "cut through" a logistics room due to an imprompt barricade in the middle of one of the hallways after he/she makes their way through one of the garages for the "crawlers" in the original alien movie.

And with the power plant overheating due to the infestation, at one point, the halls are going to cut to some emergency lighting with just faint terminal lighting and shadows as company... did... one of them just... move? :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: "Trouble" - Animated movie stills
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:08 am 
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tc200000 wrote:
@Ninja
I'd love it if you could do some lines!
It would be my honor, Maybe we'll skype or steam chat or something and nail down a few Ideas of what my lines can be. Other then heavy panting and gulping for air I don't expect to be the hero character however that would be nice. guess we'll need to see what gender you ultimately decided for that character. I don't think any inner monologue line or stuff like that would work, however reaction line to what her or she sees, hears and has to do to progress would give the character a little more weight. however it may, if not done right, also box the viewer into the observer status rather then actually being the one screaming out in terror when the Fire suppression start up suddenly overhead.

tc200000 wrote:
Also if you know anyone who's interested in doing some texture/object work I would appreciate the help too.
I'm not the greatest texture artist in the world by any means, heck I'm barely at a comfortable/competent level when it come to texture art with Photoshop. However, I'm getting better and better at using photo source images to build textures from and I'm also getting quite good at using the baking system in blender.

I'm willing to give texture work for you a shot as this will help me build up my skill for my own personal project that is in the works right now. also being as big of a ALIEN(S) fan as you, we would probably fall right into step easy when it come to making Art assets for your project.

tc200000 wrote:
All are welcome to help and need only PM me to put in an idea or two if you like.
I do have a few idea's but this is your rodeo and your the director and creative force behind this, You'll have to give me an idea of what you already plan to do before i even feel comfortable letting you know what ideas i have, chances are you and i are going to have many of the same ideas as your story already sound like something i thought about years ago. It's almost like you broke open my skull and stole my idea that was never written down. The only difference is you seem to have the skill and the Drive to actually do this, and I am eager to see just how close to each others ideas we really are...


tc200000 wrote:
I'm sure this thing is going to grow quickly (as it already is) but it's nothing I can't handle as it is a labor of love to be honest. I've taken a look at it several times and am impressed with my own work (which I must admit: I am my own worst critic sometimes) and this is a huge boost!
I really hope you are writing it all down and carefully crafting this idea... Might i suggest a organizational program called Celtx? It's open source like blender and you can get it from the following website.

http://www.celtx.com/

It's very easy to use and come with a lot of features, everything from a script writing program to a storyboard organizer and asset management scheme that will keep everything clear and easy to find. if you need help using it, I'd be more then happy to help with advice.

tc200000 wrote:
I'm going to add more "kinks" to the bars and some fragments on the ground (along with acid burns) on the deck plates below. Over all I'd like for this movie to convey the panic and fear you would expect to experience if you were (knowingly or unknowingly) possibly the last survivor before help arrives.
Thats going to look totally sweet... I'm sure of it...

tc200000 wrote:
I'm working on a section now that will make the protagonist have to "cut through" a logistics room due to an impromptu barricade in the middle of one of the hallways after he/she makes their way through one of the garages for the "crawlers" in the original alien movie.
Dang, that sounds like it has real possibilities for some scariness to happen...

tc200000 wrote:
And with the power plant overheating due to the infestation, at one point, the halls are going to cut to some emergency lighting with just faint terminal lighting and shadows as company... did... one of them just... move? :twisted:
Dang, that sounds like it has real possibilities for some scariness to happen. maybe even a good point where the viewer can have some major doubts of the survival likelihood of the Hero. To be honest I would really like to see at least one colonist actually escape the planet barely. still we know, so far as the story tells, that no one ever got off the planet and that the colony was a total loss... it's up to you which happens...

personally I'm cheering for the lone colonist no matter what happens. I'll hope for the best but expect the worse...

One question, What kind of a running length are you figuring? 10 minutes maxed YouTube? More Maybe? Less? this will help me figure out some Lines suggestions i can come up with...

I'll try and keep my language PG-13 if you want but that up to you...

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